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Post by Hilja Kukkanen/Sasha Pisarev on Apr 17, 2009 18:35:18 GMT -5
Anyone who replies to the questions in red will get three character points...
So, about gender. Gender plays a role in the rpg in that it impacts who has power as well as the individual interactions between characters. If you notice, who has power in the rpg? It is usually male characters with a few exceptions. The leaders of rebel groups tend to be male. For instance, Bonifaz Artz is the leader of Null. Socialist Revolution also has a male leader. So does the Enlightened Brotherhood. The Russian mafia is headed up by a man, Kaschei. The World Economic Council is also lead by a man (or at least someone who everyone thinks is a man.) Most of the business leaders are also men. Jumala Keitoleinen, Dinari Dollar, Calithin Crest, etc. Master Scrag,also male, is head of the Manalist Religion, a religion that worships...a male god. The main powerful female characters are Li Violette and Annette Rosenthal. In order to have power, they must have some male qualities, or use their femaleness to their advantage. Annette is hard, unemotional, logical, and strict. She is also asexual and not very feminine in her behaviors. Li on the other hand is more feminine, but uses it as a sexual power to control men.
The Manalist religion looks down on women. The religion sees women as the weaker sex and actually cursed by their gender. The religion itself values strength, selfishness, violence, and control. The mythical figures within the religion, althoug they do not come up very often, also tend to be men. The religion has its own version of the story of Caine and Abel, wherein two brothers must please Father Manala. One of the brothers is weaker and kinder. He gives Father Manala the gift of vegetables. Father Manala rejects this gift as weak and in despair, the weaker brother castrates himself. To the Manalists, this is the origin of women. They believe that at one time, all humans were male until one of the initial brothers castrated himself and was cursed to become female by Father Manala.
In any event, here are the questions for you to ponder. If you answer one of the questions in red, you will be given 3 points.
The questions are:
1. What does gender mean for your character? In what ways does your character act out their gender role? In what ways does your character rebel against their gender role?
2. If you lived in a world that valued men more than women, how would you feel, or what would you do? In what ways is this fictional world similar to our own world in terms of gender inequality?
3. How do you react to gender roles in real life? Do you feel pressured to act a certain way as a male or female? What are the consequences for going against what is expected of your gender?
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Post by ~Ophelia Vespera~ on Apr 18, 2009 12:40:03 GMT -5
OMG! X3 Oh goodie, I'd love to earn some brownie points!! ( What are the points for anyways?...) 1. What does gender mean for your character? In what ways does your character act out their gender role? In what ways does your character rebel against their gender role? Ophelia struggled with her gender role earlier in life, but nowadays doesn't really have a problem. She isn't shooting for the stars and has no desire to really be more successful, so the unfairness paid to women does not effect her. But she does not like how other women are treated who are trying to reach above and beyond what's expected of them. 2. If you lived in a world that valued men more than women, how would you feel, or what would you do? In what ways is this fictional world similar to our own world in terms of gender inequality? Ha ha, IF we lived in a world that valued men more than women? Well, I think in western society, while it does promote for women to be sexy and all that, it also promotes us to act less feminine. It used to be, "Be pretty, get married, raise a family.", now it's, "Be sexy, screw around, get a career." What a promotion, right? I guess some people consider that equality though. -shrugs- .. When I've been in other countries, I'm surprised by the glass ceiling most women live under. In China when I played on the swings, my friends would tell me not to swing so high because I might fall, and if I got a scar or something I would be less desirable! ( I didn't listen though. Fun was the only thing I was thinking about! Not getting married!) Over all though in China, besides the excessive need to get married, women were respected, and I was very happy. In Japan I found much more bias. Women there are very much discriminated against when it comes to careers and such, they were expected to be very feminine, and men are pretty much worshiped in relationships. As far as how the fictional relates to reality. Well, it's kind of like western culture nowadays, only it's, "Be sexy, stay out of the way, but do something!!" 3. How do you react to gender roles in real life? Do you feel pressured to act a certain way as a male or female? What are the consequences for going against what is expected of your gender? I sometimes daydream one day that I will get a 'bread-winner', live in a house, produce grandbabies for my mother, etc, etc,.. The whole gig that has been preached to me about a gazillion times of what a woman should do with her life according to my dad. I do sort of want that life, but not exactly. There's other stuff I want to achieve and see! But definitely, after I'm done with all my adventures, I think raising kids is for me(marriage I'm still unsure of). I think it is a complete load of crap what society is telling women: that being a mom, especially a stay at home mom, is somehow degrading, that it wastes our skills and potential. Women nowadays are told to put their careers first and virtually act like men. But I believe there is truly nothing better one can do with their life than to help raise a healthy family and just be there for their kids. Sometimes I feel like an oddball because I think so traditional when it comes to family and gender roles.. Some people call my quaint and some what conservative beliefs "sweet", but I feel there is an undertone in their voice that says "pathetic". - When I try to act like my fellow peers, sexy and... Hm.. 21st century.. I feel like a fool. Sometimes I feel pressured to act that way though, because it helps me fit in a little better. The consequences for acting the way I do, is that people mistake me for stupid and easy to manipulate. But I'm really not.. Just because I'm not really rebellious, have only had one boyfriend, and um, don't fool around.. Doesn't mean I can't stick up for myself, have fun, or do anything on my own! It's freakin' ridiculous..
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Post by Hilja Kukkanen/Sasha Pisarev on Apr 18, 2009 18:08:04 GMT -5
(I am not sure what I will give people for having points. Maybe they can pick songs for the music player or ..well, I will come up with something)
I will give you five points since you were very thoughtful with your response.
I will also answer these myself and give myself 3 points.
1. What does gender mean for your character? In what ways does your character act out their gender role? In what ways does your character rebel against their gender role?
For my main character, Hilja, well, she is very feminine, shy, and silly. She is sort of a weak person. On the other hand, because she is a plant person, she can transform into a male..something I haven't had her do. She has a male alter ego that I haven't developed much at this point in time. Although she is sort of a nice, friendly, weak person, she is also political, hard working, and at least intellectually rebellious. She isn't involved in a relationship and doesn't have traditional goals such as marriage, family, and so on. She would rather travel and someday have a career or at least a job she doesn't hate. She is oppressed by her economic situation right now more than her gender in particular.
2. If you lived in a world that valued men more than women, how would you feel, or what would you do? In what ways is this fictional world similar to our own world in terms of gender inequality?
I developed that question with the thought that well, we do live in a world that values men more than women. I of course am not very happy about that. Men do have more power in society...in even everyday interactions...in romantic relationships. I think that the best I can do is be informed about it, try to tell others my opinions, and look at ways in my own life that I am controlled by men or fall into gender roles. I am a feminist, so, I think I could do more by working with other people who feel similarly towards social change.
Since I created the fictional world here, I did it mindful of real world power. Men typically do have more political and economic power in the world. There is also this idea that women are less than men, that we are somehow inferior or weaker. I take those aspects of society and just ...maybe highlight more or try to make it more visible.
3. How do you react to gender roles in real life? Do you feel pressured to act a certain way as a male or female? What are the consequences for going against what is expected of your gender?
I have some gender dysphoria. I think about gender a lot. I hate being female...and yet, there I am, looking and acting like one. I dislike the aspects about myself that are too feminine, but, it is just a part of my personality or appearance. I don't feel pressured to act female, but I do feel an internal pressure to act less female. I feel the internal pressure more than the external pressure. I think the consequence for acting and looking less female is that I would be less attractive to men, and some women. I think that people are judgemental towards women who look to masculine, who don't dress up, try to look cute, and who don't show off their feminine body. They are seen as lesbian, or just unkept, or maybe even mentally ill if their appearance is too sloppy. The voice inside tells me, don't settle down, be a stronger person, work harder, be more independent and have more adventures, don't be afraid, don't be so weak...
So those are just some of my thoughts on gender.
As for your travels, Ophelia, that is pretty cool that you have been able to travel to other countries and see how women are treated there. I have traveled a bit too, and I do feel that compared to many places, women in America do have it a lot better. At the same time though, I feel that we still have a long way to go.
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Post by Jack Kruschev on Apr 19, 2009 10:22:16 GMT -5
1. What does gender mean for your character? In what ways does your character act out their gender role? In what ways does your character rebel against their gender role?Gender isn't really much of a role for Anthony; he is typically respectful of other sexes, works with various females when needed, and even creates female creatures more often than male ones (not really discussed in the plot.) However, he values his manhood all the same and does his best to live up to it. He avoids homosexual actions, hits on women when the opportunity arrives, and probably even gets off the nudes in his alone time. By all means, Anthony isn't a sexist, but he most likely doesn't necessarily see women as "equal." However, although he is a man and can prove it, he is very studious and doesn't easily get distracted from boring work (the mind shutting down when bored is far more prevalent in men than women.) 2. If you lived in a world that valued men more than women, how would you feel, or what would you do? In what ways is this fictional world similar to our own world in terms of gender inequality?I do live in a world where men are valued more than women. In the majority of Asian countries, future parents and children pray for a male than a female. In Western countries, women are forbidden from pursuing certain career fields (professional football player, front-line personal, etc.). Still, women make less money than men in the majority of professions they pursue (I believe it's now 88 cents to the $1.)
What I'm getting at is that, while the world has made progress in the world of gender equality, the sexes are still not equal.
I understand that there are more differences in the sexes than simply the organs between one's legs, but still, there is an uncalled for amount of gender inequality still in today's world.
The world of Opiate is easily comparable to our own world, especially in the sense of gender inequality. Men make more than women. Men have more career options than women. Men tend to get better jobs. Men tend to inherit more. Men tend to do a lot of things women are "forbidden" to do, due to their sex.
On the other hand, homo/bisexual women are generally accepted better than homo/bisexual men. However, small aspects don't truly make up the loss of rights, public roles, and loss of pay. 3. How do you react to gender roles in real life? Do you feel pressured to act a certain way as a male or female? What are the consequences for going against what is expected of your gender?I fail to really react to them. Some things, I do keep as "the role of a man," such as protecting women, being good to others, and watching out for the family. However, these roles are expected in my family, and they are part of the morals I was raised on. So, as a result, they fail to really matter much.
I don't really feel too much pressure to act in a certain manner of sex (somewhat in contradiction with my above paragraph.) I, myself, am a bisexual, so I could, theoretically, be happy with either sex. My gender doesn't hold be back from wearing makeup, shopping, or many other things. Some describe me as a "girly guy", but I'm not much of a slave to public opinion.
There are consequences of rejection, insults, threats, and fights for acting as a female, but I tend to ignore them. I'm a fairly good-sized guy and can easily defend myself. I'm often "the kid you don't fuck with", so I'm often feared and respected out of the fear. Not the way I really want to live, but something I'm stuck with due to my size, aggression, and history in martial arts and ass-wuppin'.
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Post by Hilja Kukkanen/Sasha Pisarev on Apr 19, 2009 21:58:48 GMT -5
I think it is interesting how you pointed out that bisexual and homosexual males are less accepted in society than the same for females. Male sexuality is taken more seriously, and because males have more power in society, homosexuality and bisexuality is more of a threat to male power than female sexuality is. Female sexuality is often seen as something that serves males. That's why guys have the attitude sometimes that bisexual or lesbian women are hot (at least if that sexuality is seen as a performance for a male audience or attention) but the same for men is gross. Women's sexuality is taken less seriously for the most part.
I would disagree that there are that many differences between men and women....there may be different reproductive parts or appearances, but there is a wide variety of shapes and sizes for men and women...as well as personalities, interests, talents, and capabilities. I think gender is something taught by society rather than some natural difference that exists between men and women.
Anyway, good job on the posts and I gave you 5 points.
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Post by Calithin Crest on Apr 20, 2009 18:22:35 GMT -5
In relation to question 2:
I think that, really, the majority of the world we live in does value men over women. Particularly certain African cultures and Muslim cultures, but really everywhere to varying extents. Like in the RPG religion drives this distinction in many cases (although not always). In ancient Chinese society, for example, Confucius preached the virtues of men over women. Chinese society today still tends to value men more and have not totally broken the Confucian tradition. Birth restrictions are a testament to this.
The world is obviously more progressive today than ever before, but, there's a long way to go. The majority of powerful positions are still held by men. When talking about slavery the term 'psychological slavery' is often used to describe how african americans were made to feel incapable as human beings. This is still considered to be a problem of morale in the african american community. To the same extent I feel as though there is in women a psychological subjugation that must be over come before true equality can be achieved. They have to feel capable as people, in their own right, of holding powerful positions before they will want to hold powerful positions, and they have to want these positions before they make an effort towards them.
Taking an anthropological look at this issue, I believe, is the most interesting perspective...
Chimpanzees live in patriarchal societies, constructed much like primitive human societies. They are typically heterosexual. They have rules of conduct. They have gender roles in which the males scavenge for food and provide defense while females take care of the young. Chimpanzees experience something very similar to human war and resolve most of their conflicts through fighting or other displays of aggression (i.e. stomping, screeching, intimidation).
Bonobos, another primate in the same family as chimps and humans (if I'm not mistaken our second closest genetic relative, after chimps respectively) live very differently. They live in matriarchal societies. They have no specific gender roles. They are typically bisexual. They do not conduct anything like human warfare. They resolve most of their conflicts through sex and rarely show aggression.
It would be interesting, then, to apply this formula to humanity. I wonder whether if we had started out in Matriarchal societies, like our Bonobo cousins, if the construct of civilization today would be different. I wonder if gender roles would exist, if sexuality would be seen more freely, if we would even have wars?
However, since such expiramentation is impossible, I suppose we'll have to settle for progress the slow old fashioned way. I do think a lot can be said for how far we've come as a global community though. We're closer to equality every day.
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Post by Hilja Kukkanen/Sasha Pisarev on Apr 21, 2009 16:25:47 GMT -5
Another good answer, so five points.
I had heard about the bonobo/chimp thing before. Another difference between them is that bonobos have groups of strongly bonded females. I read that in human societies where they are situations with groups that have strong male bonds, but marginal female solidarity, there is more violence and sexism against women. The examples I have read would be sports teams or fraternity houses. I think it makes sense that if females have a stronger support network of other females, there is less violence and sexism against them, since they have strength through their group.
I heard on the radio on NPR about a chimp study where "nicer" males, that is, those who share meat with females...have a better success rate of mating with females. They have more interested females anyway. It is only mildly related, but I guess the ideal guy in chimp world, is one who is capable of hunting, but also one willing to share what he gets.
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Post by Calithin Crest on Apr 21, 2009 20:32:37 GMT -5
I think that hunter/sharer thing finds it's equivalent in human societies. Studies have been done that show that women rate men as more attractive if they believe they are financially successful. I think it's about survival, ultimately. Female chimps want male chimps that can provide and are willing to provide, the same with female humans.
However, in reading the earlier posts, Anthony is actually right. There are inherent psychological differences between men and women. Psychologists have done studies that show this to be true (current standards and practices for psychological studies/expiraments prevent such studies from being done today, since they often had disastrous and harmful results for the participants, but past studies have proven differences between the genders to be inherent). It's true that many things, like gender roles (i.e. men work, women rear children), are a societal construct-- but some things aren't.
For example, women are naturally more emotionally expressive. Men are naturally more aggressive. Women tend to be more introspective, men tend to want to assert themselves in their environments. Among other things.
There was one study in particular: a male baby had an accident shortly after he was born that left his genitals mutilated. Psychologists at the time believed children to be born blank slates in terms of gender that would just act according to how they were raised. So, the doctors decided to surgically give the male baby female parts and told the parents to raise the child as a female and never tell it the truth about it's original gender. The child grew up and despite being raised as a female and thinking genuinely that it was a female, it still exhibited male traits and typical male psychology. When reaching puberty the subject developed a sexual interest in females. Eventually the subject learned the truth about it's gender and what it's parents had done and killed him/herself.
There were many other studies like this one with similar results. Furthermore, in terms of brain physiology there are specific differences in the way the male brain is made up and the way the female brain is made up (caused by chemicals released in the womb). We all have the same stuff up there, basically, but the size of certain brain areas, the degree to which they are active, and the neural connection patterns vary with gender.
Fun fact: They have found the brains of homosexual males to more closely resemble that of females then of heterosexual males. Also, the brain of a transgendered male/female truly does resemble that of the gender they believe they are suppose to be over that which they were born as.
Despite all this though, there are by FAR more psychological similarities between men and women than there are differences. But there are inherent differences.
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Post by Hilja Kukkanen/Sasha Pisarev on Apr 21, 2009 21:02:58 GMT -5
It is true that some people are born intersexed (non specific genitals) and are assigned a gender, later to realize that they were assigned the wrong gender.
As for the brain, if there are gender differences between male and female brains, what does it really matter when the brain changes as the result of environment? If the brain is always changing, couldn't brain gender differences become more pronounced as the result of environmental factors. For instance, physical fitness, being a cab driver, or a medical student...was shown in one study to enlarge the size of the hippocampus. Having depression also changes the brain. So, if the brain does naturally change as the result of activities, couldn't social roles impact the differences in male and female brains? Even if male babies and female babies are born with brains that are notably different, over time, those differences could be made greater or lesser by environmental factors...
Even if differences exist, the meaning of those differences is socially determined. The meaning of gender...the idea of gender, is also socially made.
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Post by Calithin Crest on Apr 21, 2009 21:45:03 GMT -5
That's true. The differences can be made greater or smaller. But there are still inherent differences. I think the meaning those differences have are societal constructs (all meaning other than the significance of life as the only end in itself is constructed, obviously), but the differences-in-themselves are objective facts.
I agree that relationships between their differences and the way males or females relate to their environments has very much to do with what that environment is like. And, of course, there are always exceptions to the rules. But things like aggression, intuitiveness, sensitivity, ect. are to a large extent predetermined to be a certain way in the majority of cases.
This is really just evolutionary and biochemical. The chemicals released in the womb when the gender-defining chromosome is activated make up an important part of the physiology of the brain. It only makes sense that an abundance of certain chemicals would predispose certain traits. More testosterone = more aggression. This is true in women and men, but since men inherently have more testosterone, they are inherently more aggressive. That aggression can be down-played or exaggerated by societal expectations, sure, but it still exists by itself.
We aren't disagreeing. But facts are facts. Putting everything on the relativities created by society is sort of a cop out to science. It's very postmodern.
Besides, that argument is virtually null and void. Across time and across totally varied human societies the basic differences between men and women still remain. Males more aggressive, females more intuitive (to name one discrepancy). And to go one step more in illustrating this, these gender differences are not only apperant in humans, but also in our primate relatives. Really, in all mammals. Male deer are more aggressive than female deer. Female wolves are more sensitive to the emotional tonnage in the calls of other wolves than their male counterparts. People are so quick to forget that we're just animals.
However, once again, we are far more alike psychologically as people than we are different as genders.
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Post by Hilja Kukkanen/Sasha Pisarev on Apr 22, 2009 2:42:32 GMT -5
Well, not all men are aggressive, and not all women are intuitive. Men and women as individuals have varying degrees of aggression, intuition, emotion, and so on. Not all men are more aggressive than all women. It varies person to person. We are animals, but we differ from animals in that we have complex societies which teach us how to behave. If wolves were subjected to MTV, public schooling, advertising, sit coms, and so on, and had the capacity to understand them, it might change how wolves organize themselves.
I'm not against science, but that too is rooted in society. Science has been and can be wrong about things and is something studied by people, who come to it with their own biases and baggage from society. If we traveled back in time 100-150 yrs ago, women who are overly sexual would be told to skip red meat and douche with borax. Science would believe that women are dominated by their uterus and education would tax her brain and make her infertile. Science has advanced since then, but, it has been used in the past to justify sexism, so, I don't have much incentive to put all my faith into it.
I will say that yeah, there are differences between the sexes. There are physical differences that we can see. Men tend to be larger and more muscular, but this is not an absolute rule, since there can be small men and large women. As a general rule though, men do tend to be larger. Parts differ, voices differ, hormones differ, the amount and placement of body hair differs. I won't say there aren't differences between the biological sexes.
(I will note that sex and gender are two different things. When I refer to gender, I am refering to the social aspects of being male and female. Sex is the physical aspects)
However, there is a variety in how gender is experienced or how one experiences their biological sex.
Society builds the differences up to almost mythological proportions. There is this idea that men are from Mars and women are from Venus, but to me, that just gets in the way of fully experiencing our common human-ness. The idea of gender puts people into certain roles with certain expectations. It limits our ability to fully experience life, our emotions, and what life has to offer.
What can concretely be said about gender? What is the real difference? If there are brain differences, what does that really mean? What does it mean to have hormonal differences? Not all women want to have babies and get married. Not all men want to fight or have sex with lots of women. Whatever those differences could be, they play out in such a varied and individual way...can they really be known?
Humans differ, some have blue eyes, some are smarter than others, some have red hair, some are short, some are fat, some are aggressive, some are shy, and so on.... these differences really don't matter in themselves...they matter in how they play out in social reality.
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Post by Calithin Crest on Apr 22, 2009 16:00:48 GMT -5
It's true that there are exceptions to the rules, but... These are exceptions. Not the rules. You can find a woman that is more aggressive than the average man and you can find a man that is more intuitive than the average woman. Which, if that were ever the case by the way, would also be because of chemical changes in the brain. However, generally speaking men are more aggressive than women and women are more intuitive than men. For biological reasons.
Biology: something not subject to change through societal conditioning. You accept that men are, on average, physically larger than women but don't accept that they are on average more aggressive (among other things)? This is illogical to me. Saying that society can change the psychological differences between women and men is like saying that society can change the color of someone's eyes.
I agreed before that society decides how these differences are interpreted, and also agree that society has the power to down-play or exaggerate them. It's unfortunate that there are many myths about the differences between men and women, and that this misconstrued notion of difference has been used to justify sexism in the past. But none of that changes the facts.
Using the notion that science has been wrong before to suggest that it is wrong now is trying to use an abstract argument to qualify a point in a non-abstract discussion. On the same note I could sit here and say that since science has been right before it is right now.
Besides, that is also an argument not taking into account several important facts. One of these facts being that now science has tools which measure things objectively (i.e brain physiology). Tools which give results that, like biology, are not subject to conditioning. Another of these facts being that now scientific research adhears to the scientific method. The scientific method is designed to get objective results out of expiramentation. Results which, if the scientific method is followed correctly, are also not subject to conditioning.
Furthermore, stating that inherent differences cannot be known because they play out in so many varied individual ways is like saying that since I can get to so many places from my house it is impossible to say for sure that I have a house. It's true these differences mean different things to different people in different situations, but that doesn't change the that there ARE differences.
And that's what the whole issue is. We are not debating the interpretation of differences. We are talking about whether or not there are inherent differences between men and women. Which, there are. It's actually not up for discussion. No more up for discussion than whether you have eyes or whether trees go through photosynthesis. Those are facts. It is a fact. You cannot argue about facts.
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Post by Hilja Kukkanen/Sasha Pisarev on Apr 22, 2009 17:22:31 GMT -5
Well, like I mentioned before, the brain does change. Even hormones do change through life...times of the month...interactions with others...the food that we eat can even impact hormones (because of animal and plant hormones). I'm not saying that hormones are non existent, but, even how they impact an individual can vary. For instance, I read that someone with a lot of testosterone...well, it doesn't mean that they are necessarily physically violent and competitive, it can manifest itself in focus for playing chess or piano.
There are some rules in science which are clear cut, apply every time, and to all circumstances. How people experience gender is not one of those rules. I am not convinced that it would stand up to changes in how people are socialized, since people are socialized differently in different cultures and what not, and as a result, gender is experienced differently. For instance, take Scandanavia, in old times, these people were Vikings...a pretty male driven society with rigid gender roles...today, those countries are what people sometimes call Social Democracies...and people, in this new society, don't act like..rampaging Vikings. Instead, there is little domestic violence and more social cooperation. Women in those countries are better represented in government and although there are still gender roles...they have changed...and become less rigid.
To me, each time there is an exception to the rule....how about sensitive males who aren't gay, aggressive females who aren't lesbian, people who follow gender roles...to some degree, but not in others, transgendered people, etc...and then, looking at how gender roles have evolved and gender science itself has evolved, it to me calls into question these rules.
Does being male really mean more aggression? Does it mean a person is less verbal? Does it mean that the person does not want to settle with one person but instead wants many sexual partners? What if a male is not these things? Does it make him less male? What if a female is more like that?
If the rule can be broken, on accident, in nature (transexuals), by changes in society (gender roles have been changed to some degree by feminism), or by individuals who want to break the gender rule, then how strong is the rule? This rule that doesn't apply to everyone.
Maybe the rules of maleness apply well to you, or people you know...but I guess in my life, it seems gender is more maleable. I spend 95% of my freetime with guys. I don't find that they are much different from me. I don't see them as any more aggressive, less verbal, or less emotional. I think....I look female. I sure sound female. Maybe my brain is less female. Who knows. Maybe I encounter much more gender ambiguity in my life. That is why it is hard for me to accept that males are naturally more aggressive or naturally much more anything...since to me, my reality is a lot more gender nebulous.
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Post by Calithin Crest on Apr 22, 2009 19:33:30 GMT -5
Well aggression can manifest itself differently in different people. So. That's not surprising. I'm not saying there's only one version of aggression, but a scientific definition for aggression exists (which doesn't necessarily mean violent or whatever). And men exhibit on average more of this trait as it is defined.
And, yes, it's true that across many different cultures gender roles change (viking to modern day Scandinavia being one example, sure), no one is arguing that. This isn't the issue at all whatsoever. Gender can and is interpreted differently in different situations. But there are certain differences that go along with gender that are constant. They are evolutionary. The only way they would change is over millions of years of systematic biological developments or biological pruning.
But like I said, facts aren't up for discussion. You can either accept them or not. These things have been proven and they are considered to be the truth in scientific communities. There are differences, inherently, between men and women as a whole.
Now, you're right and brain anatomy does change. Just how physical anatomy changes. A person can gain weight or loose it, a person can cut their hair, a person can loose all their teeth. In this same tradition some parts of the brain grow while others shrink, chemical levels can be altered, and new neural connections are made every day. However, there is brain anatomy that does not change. Just how there is physical anatomy that does not change. Not under any circumstance of environment. You're always going to have a heart, a stomach, a liver. In the same way your basic wiring in the brain, what neurologists sometimes call your 'first brain,' the animal part of the brain (the medulla, pons, cerebellum, ect.)-- this does not change. Gender differences are located in this part since they are such a fundamental part of the human anatomy.
It's not like I doubt where your opinions come from. I can also give personal anecdotes about people I know that don't follow these 'typical' gender patterns, however, that doesn't change the fact that the majority of the time this isn't the case. The majority of the time they do follow these patterns. Maybe it doesn't seem like it in your life, but that doesn't really change anything.
Not accepting that there are inherent psychological differences between men and women is really parallel to not accepting that there are physical differences between men and women. If genitals can be different because of biology is it REALLY such a stretch that brains can be different? Some people take these differences and misconstrue them-- it can be said that men are biologically superior because they don't have to deal with the inconveniences of menstruation. It can be said that women are socially superior because they are more emotionally intuitive. The way gender is interpreted changes, yes. But these differences in themselves: the physical and psychological, they do not change. Only interpretations of them change (once again like viking culture to modern Scandinavian culture). As I said earlier society can choose to exaggerate these differences (vikings) or down-play them (modern Scandinavia).
Also, using transsexuals as an example of a time when the rule is broken, doesn't technically make any sense. As I mentioned before their brains are like those of the gender they believe they should be. It gets complicated here-- a male who believes he should be female would have the brain of a female and thus still conform to psychological inherencies in being female. They basically are, in terms of brain physiology, the gender they feel they should be.
It is, however, as much a personal choice to accept science as it is to accept religion. I wouldn't push science on anyone anymore than I'd push my religious beliefs. So if you'd rather not believe that these differences are objectively real, or wish to believe that though they have been measured and proven time and again they are mearly a societal construct, you are of course free to do so.
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Post by Frieda Artz Lehrer on May 23, 2009 10:58:58 GMT -5
Ophelia, do you think that the gender inequality has cause your character to not want to be successful?
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